$1200 in repairs 

"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot) 05/07/2015 at 10:20 • Filed to: Jolly roger

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That’s how much it will take to fix Jolly Roger. The timing belt went. I....wasn’t aware they needed to be replaced every 100k miles or so. I feel like a idiot too because since I’ve only been into cars for like 2 years, and been trying to learn as much as I can, and I somehow neglected to learn this. [old pic]

The timing belt went, which took out the water pump, steering belt, alternator belt, anti-freeze, and the timing belt tensioner. And this is only the obvious damage. :/

Besides feeling like a horrible gearhead, I was so nervous/stressed about everything yesterday I physically got sick. Today, when I found out the amount, I started shaking and stuttering. I’ve been fretting the price tag every since the car broke down two nights ago.

I called my parents, and...they are footing the bill. I didn’t even ask them too, I called looking for advice and conversational warmth. I just feel so, ugh, like a inadequate gearhead. :(.

Dukie - Jalopnik Emergency Management Asshole > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:23

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Shit happens. Shit breaks. You learn from that shit and keep on wrenching.

zeontestpilot > Dukie - Jalopnik Emergency Management Asshole 05/07/2015 at 10:28

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True, but, ugh. I’ve been keeping a mental list of things that are ‘to be’ repaired/fixed. The front suspension, lights on the middle console, the squeaking sound on the rear axle.

I guess I lost faith in my knowledge, so I guess try harder? Or something? :/

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:29

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Yikes. The most popular outcome for a timing belt snap involves wrecking the valvetrain and totaling the engine - the PT cruiser engine is non-interference? I did not know that.

Alfalfa Romeo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/07/2015 at 10:36

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I was thinking the same thing. I didn’t expect a Chrysler economy engine to be non-interference.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:38

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Reason #504983 why I will never own a car with a timing belt. Chains can be troublesome too, but not nearly as much as a belt.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:39

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You’re very very lucky it’s non interference (I’m guessing it is since you said it didn’t need a full engine rebuild) otherwise you could times that bill by 3 or 4. We live and learn it happens to all of us some day, I lost a little more than that on my shed of a Fiat. Hope your car is back to full health soon.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:46

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Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way, that’s just part of life.

And don’t let it shake your confidence too much. You’re still learning... Hell, we’re all still learning. You just got to keep on learning and wrenching and doing your thing.

zeontestpilot > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2015 at 10:48

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Not sure of the difference besides the the name and what it is, :/

Nibbles > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:50

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Chains, due to their nature of not being made of rubber, tend to last longer than belts

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:50

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Belts generally need to be replaced every 100k (as you learned, sadly) chains are usually good for the lifetime of the vehicle, unless it's an engine known for the guides breaking or the chain stretching, such as early versions of GMs 3.6L V6.

zeontestpilot > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 05/07/2015 at 10:50

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It will be because we know it’s history. It’s one of the main reasons we’ve decided to keep the car. We got it at 36k miles, it now has 101k. You don't get that from buying another car usually...

zeontestpilot > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/07/2015 at 10:51

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Is it non-interference? Hmm...Google says it isn’t, and reading up about it, I'm now glad it is.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2015 at 10:52

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Says the BMW owner...

Just replace the timing belt when it needs to be replaced. It's not a big deal

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2015 at 10:53

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Or, a vehicle in which life of the vehicle is a very very big number of miles.

As Du Volant > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:54

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You’re very lucky. Here’s a basic explanation as to why...

The camshaft and crankshaft of an engine are kept in precise time with each other (via the timing belt or chain) so that when the pistons hit top dead center (as far up in the cylinder as they go) the valves will not be open.

If the timing belt/chain breaks, stretches, or slips off its guides this precise timing is lost and the pistons will hit top dead center while the valves are open.

Many modern engines use an “interference” design for better power and efficiency, which means there is not enough room in the combustion chamber for the valves to be open while the piston is at top dead center. When you have a timing belt failure in one of these engines, all kinds of carnage ensues.

Lucky for you, the PT Cruiser does not have an interference engine. This means when the timing belt breaks the pistons and valves will not contact each other and not cause any internal engine damage. So instead of a full engine rebuild you’ll just have to replace the belt itself and all the pieces that were broken while the broken belt was flailing around at 2000 RPM.

Some future car-buying advice for you: before you buy a car, research if it’s got a timing belt or chain. If it’s a chain, you’re usually good to go for the lifetime of the engine, but make sure there aren’t any well known timing chain issues for that particular car model. If it’s a belt, find out what the replacement interval is. Regardless of mileage, if you have no proof the timing belt was changed, plan and budget to have the timing belt replaced ASAP. It’s not cheap but as explained above it can destroy the engine in many cars if it fails. Most of what you’re having replaced is standard fare for timing belt service- due to the immense amount of labor involved in accessing these parts, it’s highly recommended to replace the timing belt tensioners and water pump anytime you’re servicing the belt.

Cé hé sin > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 10:58

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Trust me, you should be glad. You really don’t want new valves, pistons and probably other bits as well.

My engine’s belt is definitely interference and I change it at 60,000.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 11:15

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You know what ztp, just for you, I’m not gonna throw in any PT Cruiser jokes. So, being fully serious now, shit happens man. I’ve had one or two moments that made me feel like a complete idiot and feel like I had to turn in my tool kit and gearhead card and matching keychain.

Back when I was in high school, I had a ‘95 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS (which strangely enough given what your driving, had a Chrysler motor in it). I got the car with a blown motor, so we bought a new engine for it from a junk yard. I helped my uncle swap it in and felt like I then knew everything there was to know about cars. About 8 months later though, leaving school one afternoon, I stepped on the gas and the car made a horrendous tapping/knocking/rattling noise and had lost most of its power. I managed to limp it to the Mitsubishi dealership where my uncle worked, and the senior mechanic there took a look at it. He found that the engine had a leaky head gasket, and I had burnt off all of my oil and bent a rod and that my engine was basically toast. So lesson number 1 I learned the hard way was: check your oil on a regular basis.

Skip ahead a year or so now. The car has had intermittent transmission issues that ended up being fixed by the replacement of the TCU (computer that controls the crap-o-matic tranny). Similar symptoms begin to pop up again. The transmission gets stuck in a gear, I get really rough shifts, etc. So my first solution is that it’s the TCU again. So I promptly spend $200 on ordering a new one and put it in. Nothing changes. So my dad takes a look at it and does something my naive self never would have though of; he checked the transmission fluid. There was none. I felt like a complete and utter idiot once again. We put 3 or 4 quarts of ATF in and, I don’t know how but, the transmission ran good as new again. No damage done. So, lesson number 2 I learned the hard way was: check ALL of your fluids on a regular basis.

Moral of the story is that we all make stupid mistakes learning about cars and you don’t need to beat yourself up about it. We’ve all been there, learned from our mistakes, and expanded our knowledge because of those situations. It’s part of the learning process. And that puts you light years ahead of your Joe Schmoe neighbor who takes his Camry to the dealership every 3k miles for the oil change and ends up spending another $400 because they tell him he needs to replace his in-cabin air filter.

And in closing, this might just be a sign that you need to dump the Cruiser and get something a bit more reliable and fun. Might I suggest a Crown Vic?

zeontestpilot > Cé hé sin 05/07/2015 at 11:19

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I'm realizing that now. I guess you can say I'm glad I got this car. This car has been a blessing here or there, and has taken a beating ( probably more than other pt's). It's like the perfect car for me, :).

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/07/2015 at 11:28

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MrsZtp and I are in talks about a possible 2nd car. We know the pt’s history, which is valuable. But it looks like we might need a backup car that’s also Commuter.

zeontestpilot > As Du Volant 05/07/2015 at 11:30

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Thanks, :)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 11:46

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Definitely worth fixing then. I just bought my car on 35k miles and hope to keep it a while. For all people say about old cars on here, sometimes it’s nice to have a new/ one owner car you know well.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 12:19

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Crown Vic all the way man. I just picked one up a few weeks ago (my grandfather’s old car) and I absolutely love it, lol. It’s a ‘97 LX and has 223k miles on it and still runs like a dream. The motor was rebuilt around 150k miles, but that’s the only major maintenance the car has needed. It fires right up, the A/C still blows ice cold, the transmission is smooth, and it rides like a giant cloud. I can fit all of my earthly possessions in trunk. Hell, I could probably live out of the trunk it’s so spacious. I’ve also been driving it back and forth to work for 2 weeks and haven’t have to fill up yet (although I will have to today). And you can find the P71 models (former police cars) at auctions for ~$3k or so in decent shape.

zeontestpilot > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 05/07/2015 at 13:11

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Yeah, I think it was either a one owner or a lease. I do not know really. It’s an ‘08 that we bought in ‘10.

I just got back from my neighbors who said I should sell it asap. She said her ‘88 Accord busted the same way in ‘97, and one week later after similar repairs were done, he engine blew because the belt was too tight on the engine, :/.

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/07/2015 at 13:12

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My only concern would be that it’s rwd, I’m in the country, where its plowed when absolutely necessary, :/. I’ve been eyeing the Grand Prix though....

How far is your work from home?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 13:16

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A reputable shop shouldn’t have a problem provided all damage is identified and sorted. It isn’t a job to get done cheaply at a backstreet garage though. If the belt was too tight they must’ve over torqued the tensioner or used incorrect parts. A reputable shop would never do something like that.

At the end of the day selling it how it is will be difficult and bring you next to nothing compared to what a running one is worth.

However if the valves have contacted each other and bent (fairly rare but possible) the repair cost will jump up a fair bit. Something to keep in mind.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 13:33

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Grand Prix could be fun if you find the GXP. LS3 power with a 6 speed manual? Basically the Pontiac Version of the Monte Carlo SS for the early 2000’s.

And it’s about 9 miles from my house to my office.

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/07/2015 at 14:56

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A manual? The Grand Prix only came in automatic for the last gen.

The crown Vic, police package, gets like 22 hwy mpg I think. I travel 39 miles to work, then another 39 back, :/.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 17:02

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Damn, my knowledge on it was completely wrong, lol. Yea, I see it have a 4 speed auto with paddles and an LS4. It had a HUD too though!

And I don’t know about the Vic’s mpgs. I’ll have to measure that out when I get home. Just filled up this afternoon.

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/07/2015 at 17:34

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Which trim were you looking at for the grand prix?

For the crown Vic’s, police interceptors and civilians had different ratings for mpg, cuz the police version is heavier. For example, here’s the mpg for a ‘03 crown Vic: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?ac…

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 19:01

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I’m not engine savvy, but when my belt broke on the tercel, nothing else was affected (though I used the opportunity to replace a lot of things anyway...). That’s a lot of damaged parts on your end.

SlickMcRick > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 21:20

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Get a Honda. Civic or Accord. Great fuel economy and parts are abundant. Also it has a timing belt with about the same interval as the PT so if a car you find is near 100k or 200k factor in a timing belt and water pump if it hasn’t already been done.

zeontestpilot > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/07/2015 at 22:05

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I do know them belts are normally by each other on engines, so it made sense to me. It could also be wear and tear on them as well...

zeontestpilot > SlickMcRick 05/07/2015 at 22:06

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They aren’t as abundant here in Michigan, :/

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > zeontestpilot 05/07/2015 at 22:13

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Well, don’t be upset, this is just what happens. My wife’s car had its cat completely imploded, which was about an $1100 bill. Yeah, the $1100 bill sucks, but it had crawled over 220k before that happened, and who has 4-7k lying around to try to find another reliable DD? It’s just cheaper to fix it and keep going (if everything else is fine).

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 00:03

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I was thinking of the GXP. And I was going off of memory. Didn’t actually look at the spec sheets until afterwards, lol.

As for the Crown Vic, the P71 was tested with a full load of police equipment. So it had the cage, lights, sirens, computer, radios, camera, guns, etc. None of that stuff would be in it once it was deadlined and sent to auction. So it would end up weighing the same as the civilian version.

Obsessed > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 00:57

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sorry to hear of all the trouble...how soon will they have you back on the road?

pip bip - choose Corrour > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 05:07

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hopefully no internal damage.

chances are probably have to pull head off for repairs.

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/08/2015 at 06:07

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I was interested in the prix because of the 3.8L engine, I hear it's good.

zeontestpilot > Obsessed 05/08/2015 at 06:08

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Today sometime. Fingers crossed!

zeontestpilot > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/08/2015 at 06:09

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Well, they said they would call if anything else was wrong with the engine while they were taking it apart. So far, no calls, :D

pip bip - choose Corrour > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 06:11

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fingers crossed for you.

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 09:21

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Depends on which 3.8. You want the Supercharged one, lol. That motor really is a beast. Probably the best built V6 until Ford came out with the EcoBoost.

Side note: In a strange (and slightly drunken) brainstorming session, I came up with this genius idea of taking a base 4th gen. V6 Firebird, putting a few Firehawk bits on it, and then swapping in a modded version of that motor. Specifically, one of the ones they ran in the IndyCar series in the late ‘90s that made ~950hp. I’d gut the car out, black it out, full cage, seats and harness, full road track suspension / possible tube frame, throw in that engine with a sequential gearbox, race-spec fuel cell, passenger’s side exit exhaust, NASCAR wheels and tires, and that clear wing off of the Firebirds they ran in the IROC series. My Frankenstein Firebird will come to life one day...

zeontestpilot > Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy 05/08/2015 at 09:51

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My only concern with a supercharged engine, is that insurance might go up, dramatically, :/

Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy > zeontestpilot 05/08/2015 at 11:23

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It wouldn’t. I just played around on the Geico website. There was an $0.87/month difference between the GT (3800 V6) and the GTP (Supercharged 3800 V6). And then a $0.97/month difference between the GTP (Supercharged 3800 V6) and the GXP (LS4 V8).